Q & A’s

In September 2020, our Founder, spoke to Mr. Bhumesh Verma, who is the Founder of Corp Comm Legal among others, to understand what it takes to be a good intern and other nuances about internships.

Interview Series - Interview with Mr. Bhumesh Verma, Founder of Corp Comm Legal

SEPTEMBER 14, 2020

MR. BHUMESH VERMA

(FOUNDER OF CORP COMM LEGAL)

An Interview On His Expectations From Young Professionals.

Internship Bank’s interview series aims at diving deep into different ways on how to ace internships. As a part of the series, to get more clarity for our readers, we bring you an interview with Mr. Bhumesh Verma, founder of Corp Comm Legal. He is an international corporate lawyer with more than 25 years of experience specializing among others, in areas of mergers and acquisitions, bankruptcy, copyright, entertainment, information technology, IPR and taxation.

Mr. Bhumesh Verma graduated from Delhi University in 1994 and was a Chevening Scholar at the College of Law at York in 2000 and worked with Ashurst LLP in London, United Kingdom. He was a partner at some of the biggest Indian law firms prior to establishing Corp Comm Legal and has over the years authored several books in the area of law especially contracts. He is a strong proponent of online internships for law students and is a guest faculty with some of the best Indian law schools on Contracts and corporate law subjects.

In this interview, our founder Ms. Debolina Saha tries to understand Mr. Verma’s expectations from his interns and what sets good interns and internship applications from the many others.

We hope aspiring professionals find this interview helpful.

1. What professional qualities you expect from an intern?

One does not expect outstanding legal proficiency or acumen from an intern from day one. However, the morning shows the day. Your behaviour and dedication to the assigned tasks at any law firm more or less is a good indicator of your next 40-50 years in the profession.

One could broadly divide the expected qualities into the following categories:

• The qualities that you already possess, through your background, education, upbringing, learnings, atmosphere around you and so on. Almost in-built and engrained as a part of your personality, whichever profession you may go to. These would include sincerity, dedication, candour, patience, honesty, hardworking nature and so on.
• The qualities that you can learn on the job. While interning with a lawyer / law firm, you get into a ‘practical’ side of the profession which is very different from the academic world. You can learn how to develop an eye for details, team work, leadership, a proactive approach, time management, meeting deadlines, drafting, reviewing, proofreading, coordination, ability to convince rather than to argue, etc.
• The qualities you wish to imbibe by learning from other professionals. It could be your fellow students, teammates at your internship, senior lawyers, academics, mentors and so on. Each one of us possesses different qualities, some of which may appeal to different students.

A good intern is one who has a good, judicious mix of these different attributes. No firm expects a top legal eagle sort of abilities from interns, but they should at least be willing to listen, be coached and guided in the right direction, if falling short in any domain.

This is where mismatch appears. Students doing exceptionally well in studies or moot courts or essay competitions feel they know all – like someone scoring a 100 in English in Class 12 may feel he knows everything about the language. However, would it be a correct assumption ?

Practical life in courts and boardrooms is very different. You have to keep your ego back in college and start from point zero.

2. How important is it for an intern to develop his/her soft skills?

Very important. Not only what you say or do, what is important is the how of what you say or do.

The presentation is very important now, more than ever before in this world. Be it your words, presentations, drafting, speaking, body language, team work, all these aspects require very careful cultivation and nurturing.

The role of a lawyer is now no more limited to arguing a case in courts and winning it for the client. It is much wider – you have to play different roles at different times and in different atmospheres - may be a negotiator, an arbitrator, a mediator, a team leader, an in-house counsel in charge of deals and so on.

Unless you possess good soft skills, you cannot be confident of delivering your best, securing your client’s interest, taking your team along or convincing your employer (corporate or firm) or clients.

You need to develop a congenial personality. It helps you in overcoming so many hurdles at different stages of your career – as an associate, partner, entrepreneur or whatever.

Most importantly, it helps you in breaking ice with anyone unknown. Most of the times, lawyers are dealing with hitherto unknown professionals in every new case / business deal.

3.  What is different about an internship at Corp Comm Legal.

We were among the first Indian law firms to have a 100% online internship program from the inception of the firm on April 1, 2017.

Based on my experience, I realised that the prevailing internship system was not very productive in the sense that the majority of the students did not get internships at their native place or in the city they were studying. Shifting to a new city, incurring expenditure on travel, stay, food etc. imposed a financial burden on the students. In addition, due to all this, students could not devote adequate attention to the work assigned to them under the internship at the law firms.

For many students, the idea of a traditional internship was to chill out in a new city, freak out with friends and visit the law firm office for a formality some time and get a certificate anyhow.

So the system was no good for a majority of students or law firms.

Through an online internship model, we have been able to assemble the brightest and best of Indian law students scattered in different law schools spread across India without dislocating them. They can work at their own place and at their own pace. Due to the online model, many students have been engaged with us on long term basis (else the internship is confined to semester breaks).

We are also among the first (or may be the first) Indian law firms to give due credit to student researchers. Whenever an article is published based on students’ research and contribution on any website or even journals, we are happy to credit them author or co-author, depending on the extent of their involvement with the research.

I am happy that we’ve been the trendsetter in online internships. However, the path was challenging in the beginning. Most of the universities did not understand the concept, nor did the majority of the students. They did not believe internships could work that way.

Post COVID-19, everyone had to shift to an online internship model, which we were pursuing for many years.

The universities / students not understanding or making fun of our internship model have been queueing up … we feel vindicated. May be we were ahead of the curve in 2017.

4.  Having mentored so many students, have some interns created a good / bad and lasting impression on you?

It’s been a mixed bag for us, by and large good.

For internships, we have never discriminated on the basis of law school, city and other parameters. As a result, students from almost all credible law institutes have interned with us during last three and a half years.

We have observed that talent cannot be assumed just because you cracked CLAT and got an admission in an NLU. We have seen many bad apples from NLUs taking everything for granted, thinking they are doing a favour by interning with us, not submitting anything and insisting on an internship just by virtue of their engagement. This attitude isn’t taking anyone anywhere.

 On the other hand, many non-NLU students work extra hard to bridge the gap. We find them second to none when it comes to skills and dedication.

 Therefore, students must concentrate on doing what they can do best regardless of metro-non metro, NLU – non NLU, English – vernacular, rich – poor or similar monkeys on their back.

 I would not like to name the outstanding students because there are too many and some 50 odd are interning on different projects right now. Many of them keep working with us as researchers and / or guides for younger students even after passing out of college. You can see their names with us in our articles every now and then.

 5.  What type of certificate courses, research papers and workshop courses help students stand-out in their internship applications?

 Our law universities’ curriculum is very cramped and fast paced. Students hardly get any practical exposure. Therefore, students must endeavour to pursue additional vistas to broaden their knowledge in the subjects they are interested. However, they should take care that what they do results in real knowledge and not only a certificate.

 I am sad to notice many unscrupulous elements exploiting students by organising useless seminars, webinars, certificate courses and so on. It has become fashionable to collect participation certificates by paying Rs. 50 or 100. You should focus on attaining knowledge, not certificates. At least we do not pay much attention to participation certificates.

I even stopped delivering guest lectures at some of these events realising that organisers were making money, speakers were not getting anything out of it and participants were not interested in any knowledge but only certificates. Sad to notice the organisers were exploiting some of the best professionals and academics in this shady business.

Everyone has turned into a guru for students these days – cv guru, internships guru, interview guru, dating guru and so on, charging Rs. 50 to 500 for webinars. So many students have confided in me that these webinars are an utter waste of time.

I also see many firms have cropped up engaging every applicant as intern so that their name is known on LinkedIn. So many firms turn out to be non-existent in reality and some of them ask students to solicit business for them without assigning them any research or other legal assignment.

You should be judicious enough to make out what is useful for you.

A long term course or workshop devised to impart academic or practical knowledge may stand out in your cv and enhance your engagement potential (as an intern or in a job).

6.  Few colleges in India offer ‘specialization’ in certain subjects. Do you think students should opt for such specializations? What’s been your experience of being guest faculty for such courses?

Absolutely. If you feel you have a knack for a particular subject or practice area, such a specialised course will help you delve deeper in the subject and expose you to better understanding.

I have first-hand experience in this regard as I am engaged as a guest faculty with so many premier law institutes. Some of these colleges engage me as the resource person for specialised courses – I keep getting students’ feedback that how much such courses have helped them as a student as well as in their professional career.

7.  Many corporate law students are keen to pursue a Company Secretary degree. Does an additional Company Secretary degree help law students in their corporate career, as well as in their internship applications?

It depends on your priorities and mindset.

CS may be good for students who wish to pursue a stable corporate career. Legal practice is much more exciting yet challenging and has a longer gestation period.

Attaining additional knowledge by pursuing additional courses is not a bad idea. However, how it helps someone has a lot to do with what you do with such knowledge or whether you have actually imbibed some of that knowledge and can implement it in your practice.

In the race to collect qualifications (like fake certificates I mentioned earlier), you should not become a Jack of all trades. Rather concentrate on your strengths.

8. What is your advice to the graduating class of 2020 who have been worst hit by the global pandemic of COVID-19?

All of us, economy, times, good things, bad things - everything has a lifecycle. Whatever goes up, comes down and the other way round – that is why it is called a cycle.

Keep learning new things / subjects till we come back to (new) normal.

Keep the faith.

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In September 2020, our Founder, spoke to Mônica Zionede Hall, who is the Founder of Feliz Consulting, Hong Kong among others, to understand what Mônica and foreign organizations looks for in their interns.

FELIZ Consulting’s Founder and CEO Mônica Zionede Hall Speaks on What She Looks Out for in Interns and Job Seekers

SEPTEMBER 1, 2020

As part of Internship Bank’s interview series aimed at diving deep into different topics on how to ace internships, we bring to you our very first interview of this series.

In this interview, our Founder Debolina Saha Narayanan talks with Mônica Zionede Hall, Founder and CEO of FELIZ Consulting, Hong Kong (FELIZ), an experienced corporate trainer and coach with over 15 years of experience in the learning and developmental space, working particularly with leading law firm clients.

Started in early 2015 by Mônica Zionede Hall, FELIZ is a leading boutique training and coaching company based in Hong Kong providing bespoke, fun, meaningful and interactive corporate training, coaching and consultancy services across the Asia-Pacific region.

FELIZ has gained a quick and unique reputation in Hong Kong and APAC region, especially in the legal and financial industries for providing truly customised training workshops, coaching sessions and facilitations that meet the clients’ needs while making a lasting positive impact not only at the business but at the individual level as well.

In June 2020, Internship Bank successfully placed an intern with FELIZ and since then the journey has been exceptional with FELIZ extending the one month internship of Alice Tsui to five months! FELIZ promised to hire more candidates from Internship Bank and to continue this positive relationship. In this interview, our Founder Debolina discusses with Mônica some of the business' expectations. They hope that all interested applicants at InternshipBank can gain new insights and some guidance on how to tailor their applications for an internship at FELIZ and perhaps at other places too!

FELIZ has gained a quick and unique reputation in Hong Kong and APAC region, especially in the legal and financial industries for providing truly customised training workshops, coaching sessions and facilitations that meet the clients’ needs while making a lasting positive impact not only at the business but at the individual level as well.

In June 2020, Internship Bank successfully placed an intern with FELIZ and since then the journey has been exceptional with FELIZ extending the one month internship of Alice Tsui to five months! FELIZ promised to hire more candidates from Internship Bank and to continue this positive relationship. In this interview, our Founder Debolina discusses with Mônica some of the business' expectations. They hope that all interested applicants at InternshipBank can gain new insights and some guidance on how to tailor their applications for an internship at FELIZ and perhaps at other places too!

Q: What do you think are some of the basic professional attributes that all potential candidates should acquire?

In an ideal world, there are a lot of things I wish candidates had, but I believe in people development, this is what I teach. So, I believe that everyone can learn, improve and develop in their roles. For me and FELIZ, I feel there are five main attributes I am looking for in a candidate: proactiveness, humility, good organisational skills, good listening skills and a growth mindset. Interns should also be curious, proactively seek feedback and learn to take negative comments in a positive light.

Q: What sort of interests do successful applicants need to show to secure an internship experience with you?

It is nice for candidates to have diverse interests. This gives candidates the ability to think from different perspectives and therefore to present different view-points in any kind of discussion, which enriches any dialogue, as well as the end result. It also helps develop the candidate to come up with “out-of-the-box” solutions and suggestions, which I highly value - and my clients do too.

In addition, general interests such as travelling and reading are also helpful given that such activities often help broaden one’s outlook and make an individual more open-minded. Diversity in interests also demonstrate a candidate’s willingness to learn about additional subjects other than their main “academic topics”. Lastly, my business is very much a “people business,” which means that it is important for me (and candidates) to come across well personally, with real interests, ideally beyond just business or academic skills. I for instance love yoga, meditation, running, reading and lately I started learning mahjong (just for fun!).

Q: Are there any specific applications or soft skills which candidates should be well versed in or develop in order to have a successful application and a fruitful internship program?

Soft skills have gained a lot more importance over the years. In fact, nowadays in business, soft skills are referred to in the HR/L&D space as “professional skills” rather than “soft skills”. They are often as important - or even more important - in my view, than technical skills. Organisations are investing heavily in training programs, coaching and mentoring that help build such skill-sets in their workplace - emotional intelligence, resilience, communication skills, presentation, personal branding and presence, feedback, leadership and so forth. These will only become more important in the future.

Therefore, I believe that students should develop both their technical skills and their interpersonal, social skills. They should also develop the habits of asking more questions, being active listeners, attending webinars, events and putting themselves “out there”. In general, they should show a genuine interest in learning.

Q: How important do you think activities like public speaking and acquiring leadership positions, such as editorial positions, are when reviewing applications of students?

Of course it goes without saying that such activities definitely make a candidate stand out among other applicants.

In fact, I definitely notice that most internship applicants these days have a host of extra-curricular activities on their curriculum vitae. So securing internships has definitely become more competitive! However, I think students should not feel pressured into undertaking such activities for the sake of taking them. They should only do activities if they have a genuine interest and see the benefits. That way, students can dig deeper and get more out of the process.

For example, my 15-year-old daughter is very eco-conscious, and therefore volunteers at an organization called ‘Us For Planet’. She really likes the work because she is motivated by the meaningful cause and therefore gains a lot from the experience, both in terms of learning more about the subject, but also the process of doing lots of things in an organization. However, having fun should not translate into doing the same thing over and over again, staying in the comfort zone. I suggest students to push themselves out of their comfort zone and never be afraid of trying new things. That’s how we grow and there is always something new to learn!

Q: What are the major attributes you look for in your candidates for internships?

As I mentioned earlier, I believe some of the most essential qualities that a candidate should have are high doses of proactiveness, humility, active listening, mindset and organizational skills. At FELIZ Consulting, I also look for interns that have good social skills and the ability to continue developing their interpersonal skills by observing how I interact with my clients during various meetings online or face to face, and during training programs, webinars and different events. Having curiosity is really important!

Q: What level of societal awareness do you expect from your candidates?

While I expect a high level of social awareness from my interns, I understand that this is a new professional environment for them and so I always try and mentor, share my experiences with my interns in order to help them get as much out of the overall internship. I constantly seek curious candidates who are eager to learn, receive/give feedback and ask questions.

Q. How important do you think it is for young professionals to have an opinion as well as general awareness on prevailing social issues? Do you think this helps them in the long run?

I think it’s very important for young and older people to think over issues of social justice and equality, and figure out ways to help. What can we do in our day-to-day to add value? With our interactions? At home? Outside? On an internship or other work? And then later when we get to higher career positions? An interest in social issues can also help foster a sense of gratitude among students, empathy and care. For example, in my home country of Brazil, many people are struggling to earn a basic living wage. It is good to look at all our privileges, and be aware of such social inequalities and be more grateful for what we have- and then see how we can help to improve the situation?

I also think that interns have an important role to play in ‘reverse mentorship’. While many may see the new younger generation as result-oriented and “spoiled”, I actually think that young people today are very socially aware and dedicated to changing the world for the better. They want to make a difference. It is therefore helpful if students take the initiative to educate their seniors, share new and different perspectives… of course in a careful and polite manner using their best interpersonal skills!

Q. In light of a growing trend towards specializing in a certain field, do you feel that specialization at a junior/ college level is beneficial or at all recommended to candidates?

It is difficult to judge whether specialization is a good thing or a bad thing. It depends on both one’s own interests, and the specific job description and requirements.

But one thing I suggest is that students should always tailor their cover letter and curriculum vitae to the specific job they are applying to. In fact this is something I teach to my coaching clients. We should look at the “AIMB” (Audience, Intention, Message and Benefits for your audience). With the AIMB model we should always tailor the communication to the audience we are interacting with. If it is an email, a call, cover letter, resume, or in person, it matters a lot to customise it.

For cover letters, it is important to highlight the skill-sets interns bring to the table after carefully considering the nature and business of the company and the job description. If the job requires specialized skills, then it is important to show that you possess the requested skills and even use similar words that emphasise your match for the job. In case the job description is more general, then it is good to show that you are flexible, adaptable and versatile.

Q. In your view, what should the applicant have gained after the completion of the internship program?

There is no one single answer to this question. I strongly believe that what an intern will get from the internship depends on how much effort the person is willing to put into the internship opportunity. Interns in any position should try to hone their organizational, interpersonal, communication and drafting skills, including learning how to write effective e-mails, thank-you notes, handle enquires, see how a RFP (request for proposal) works, building rapport with a client and beyond.

As FELIZ is mainly involved in the business of training and coaching (a lot of lawyers in particular!), interns will specifically have an exposure to different training programs that FELIZ regularly conducts for leading law firms in Asia such as Bryan Cave Leighton Paisner, DLA Piper, Mayer Brown, King Wood & Mallesons and so forth, including topics such as ‘diversity and inclusion and unconscious bias’, ‘ways to make effective presentations’, ‘forging lasting client connections’, ‘effective giving and receiving feedback’, 'executive presence’, ‘time management’ and so forth.

Q. Do you have any advice for potential candidates? Whether their application is successful or not, any particular quality or skill which generally helps in professional life?

My advice to the candidates would be to expose themselves to new learnings, opportunities and experiences as much as possible. I strongly recommend watching TED Talks, taking a course at Coursera, listening to podcasts, doing mindfulness daily, attending new webinar events, engaging in your community and outside, - basically anything that can expand the mind and motivate!

Also, at the cost of repeating myself I would say, continue being proactive, humble, a good listener, organized and working on that growth mindset!

Q. Do you have any book suggestions or a quote to give to the readers as we come to the end of this interview?

A few weeks ago I finished reading “Becoming” by Michelle Obama and I loved it! There is a lot of wonderful stories and inspiration, very eloquent and relatable- a reflective coming-of-age story that is really inspiring to so many women. A wonderful read!

Since mentioning the book, here are two wonderful quotes from it as well:

“If you don’t get out there and define yourself, you’ll be quickly and inaccurately defined by others.” ― Michelle Obama, Becoming

“For me, becoming isn’t about arriving somewhere or achieving a certain aim. I see it instead as forward motion, a means of evolving, a way to reach continuously toward a better self. The journey doesn’t end.” ― Michelle Obama, Becoming

To know more about Mônica and FELIZ Consulting, please Follow FELIZ on LinkedIn https://ph.linkedin.com/company/feliz-consulting

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